View Full Version : The Living Hell for 3 Months
Hi guys, I am really glad I found this forum as I finally find people who understands the problems I am facing, I wish to share with you all my experience with Lasik. I am from Singapore and I did my Lasik in a government hospital at around 3 months ago.
I am a 23 year old student and had been wearing specs for the past 14 years. I decided to go for lasik because I dun want to be constrain by my specs anymore. I never tried contacts before as I dun like the idea of constantly putting something into my eyes (ironical ya).
Pre-Lasik
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Mine was the standard Lasik, I did ask about wavefront but my doc told me both of my cornea were very symmetric and dun need to do wavefront and that the additional cost will not justify the benfits, so I listened to him. My Lasik was done on 2 days, the first day on my non-master eye so that calibration to the machine can be done to provide better results for my master eye on the next day. This is where the first problem arises, they indicated my right as the master but when in fact i found out that my master is my left. So now, the vision in my left is worst than the vision in my right
During the Op
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The standard procedure. Nothing unusual
Post Op
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Symptoms
1) During the day, I see floaters very often, they just appear out of no where even when i am not strainning my eyes, I find this very irritating. I notice that the floaters are in my right eye only
2) Under shelter, low light conditions and at night, my vision appears hazy/blurry and i find that there is something wrong with my contrast
my meaning of contrast is something like what is describe below
Contrast sensitivity deals with a patient's ability to discern images of varying shades from the background - in other words, how faded an image can be before it is indistinguishable from the background. Imagine driving in fog - the thicker the fog, the grayer all objects become and the more difficult to distinguish their features
3) The halos, starburst and glares at night. I used to enjoy driving at night but because of these problems, I dun dare to drive anymore
4) My eyes constantly feel very tired and has really affect my studying
5) There is also something wrong with my depth perception especially around the edges of objects. It gets worst when in a crowded area
I highlight these problems to my doctor every checkup but everytime he would say that the results are excellent based on the chart and I have eagle vision in one eye, 6/4.5 and the op was a success and told me to wait to see if there is any improvements. For the past 3 months, I am feeling very depress but I constantly try to tell myself not to think about it but it is hard when everyday I am using these pairs of eyes to see the world.
Is there anything I can do? All I can hope now is that it will get better in the following months.
Diopter
12-Nov-2005, 08:17
Hello, Kram --
Welcome to the site.
Some of your symptoms sound like mine, especially #1, 4, and 5. It sounds like your vision might be overcorrected to a "+" prescription. If so, you might find that reading glasses help you study a bit. Because of #5, I have been wearing reading glasses for even more than reading lately. I am still exploring better solutions.
I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but you can use the search feature to locate some older posts discussing some of the symptoms you face and maybe find some ideas of what it can be. For #5, try searching "binocular" on this site, since you seem to be having problems with binocular focus.
Do not give up on researching this.
Diopter
pavel_g
12-Nov-2005, 08:19
Is there anything I can do? All I can hope now is that it will get better in the following months.
Hi, Kram
I had LASIK at your age, so I know what does it mean to deal with these complications in young age.
Your sympthoms may improve with time, partially due to the changes in the cornea, partially due to the brain adaptation.
I would go to see specialist for your depression. I know how it is. Antidepressants help usually very significantly to us, who are basically psychologically healthy - but have special problem which makes us depressed.
Yes, there is something you can do. Actually, there are multiple options: pupils constricting eye drops, rigid gas permeable contact lens or surgical re-treatment.
If I would be you, I think NOW I would try pupils constricting drops. There are few kinds, most common used is Alphagan or Alphagan-P (brimonidine is an active compound). The another kind is Pilocarpine, which used diluted mostly. I would start with Alphagan. You should ask your ophtalmologist or your OD to prescribe you these eye drops and check if they improve you vision at night.
Contact lenses may be even better solution, since there are no side effect of pharmacological agent and their action is not diminished with time, as it frequently occurs with pupils constricting drops. The one thing to mention, you should find very good specialist for rigid gas permeable lenses fitting. This specialist should be experienced in the fitting on post-refractive surgery corneas. This is very, very important - dont let someone unexperienced to even try, since the failure will discourage you. This is the last thing you need right now - to be discouraged, so find the best specialist you can.
I think you a little bit early post-op to try contacts now, since there are changes that still expected, in you quality of vision and in your refraction. I would wait 3 month more with that (while using eye drops if they help)
Surgical re-treatment is the last option. I mean the the last, last, last option. Its most dangerous option, and it is not fact at all that it will help. You have much better chances with contacts.
Thanks for the replies guys, btw my name is Mark. I did consult another specalist but he did not spend alot of time discussing my problems with me as he is a private doc and at that time alot of patients are waiting outside. The feeling he gave me is that he is very impatient and i am quite turn off by this. In contrast, the gov doc who perform the surgery, he is willing to listen to my problems but can offer no solution. The private doc i went to, he told me that my pupils are quite large and give me alphagan p to use twice daily. The first few times when I used it, i feel that there was improvement in the night vision but consequently after that, it seems that the improvement is diminishing. Are my problems caused by higher order abberrations and are there any solutions to it or should i just keep waiting? the gov doc offered to do a cornea topology and abberration check but after seeing the results after the chart test he said there is no point and that if there is any higher order abberrations he can do nothing about it, is it true? thanks for the help
Mark,
Your surgeon is being remarkably candid.
I have been fitting contact lenses for patients who have had refractive surgery for nearly two decades. In my view, Pavel_g is correct. Now, there might be a surgical specialist out there, such as Dan Reinstein in London who work with advanced equipment and who do research for laser manufacturers and who might have a different opinion on this. But sadly, I have also had a few patients who were the recipients of such retreatments a couple of years ago.
DrG
pavel_g
12-Nov-2005, 11:29
The private doc i went to, he told me that my pupils are quite large and give me alphagan p to use twice daily. The first few times when I used it, i feel that there was improvement in the night vision but consequently after that, it seems that the improvement is diminishing.
Mark, most probably you can prevent or reduce the diminishing of the effect by using drops less frequently.
Try to use them once daily (in the evening).
If the effect still diminish with time, you can use drops 2-3 times a week, in the days when you need to drive in night or go out.
after reading through some of the posts in this BB, i realised that I am not alone. Some of the posts really describe how I felt for the past 3 months. I am grateful for this BB and the people who posted to my questions.
Kram, I also had government doctors doing my surgery (United States Air Force). Amazingly the government doctors have been MUCH more responsive and honest than any civilian doctors I have ever delt with. I suppose it is because they do not profit based on the numbers of patients they deal with, their paycheck is always the same. Also, I didn't have to pay for any of the surgery or any of my medications which is nice.
when you guys mention pupil size, is it the black area of the eye or the one inside the black area? Because if it is just the blakc area, my diameter is more than 1 cm.
Kram, I also had government doctors doing my surgery (United States Air Force). Amazingly the government doctors have been MUCH more responsive and honest than any civilian doctors I have ever delt with. I suppose it is because they do not profit based on the numbers of patients they deal with, their paycheck is always the same. Also, I didn't have to pay for any of the surgery or any of my medications which is nice.
Speaking of that, it is important to consider just how much the doctor is in it for direct profit, or what his larger motivations are in his career.
For example, several people have recommended going to doctors based out of hospitals, especially teaching hospitals. I *WISH* I had thought of that before. These doctors have more of a career than just doing LASIK.
I made the mistake of going to a guy who set up a LASIK-only high-volume assembly-line type place in the L.A. area where he just flies through dozens of operations a day and is filthy rich. He has a *strong vested interest* (those are the key words) in convincing everyone who walks through his door to have the surgery done and to have it done by him. The place has all the ambiance of a used-car lot. I can only blame myself for being dumb enough to go there in the first place.
I just made an appointment for a second-opinion with a doctor based out of UCLA and the Jules Styne Eye Institute. He could stop doing LASIK tomorrow and still be succesful, famous, and rich. I could tell from the couple minutes of talking to make the appointment that he was more compassionate and sincere than my original doctor, and that he couldn't care less whether he gets me to pay him for the enhancement that I might get. I'm still withholding final judgment, but I have a feeling that I'll be recommending others to this guy from now on (definitely not the first guy).
--Brian
pavel_g
13-Nov-2005, 00:27
when you guys mention pupil size, is it the black area of the eye or the one inside the black area? Because if it is just the blakc area, my diameter is more than 1 cm.
Mark, I don't know what is the color of your eyes, but there is a colored area in the center of the eye, called iris - it can be in different colors, including brown close to black, but not completely black.
In the center of the iris there is a completely black circle, which is changing in diameter when it is dark (larger) or when there is a lot of light (smaller), this central black circle is a pupil. Probably that’s why in dark condition you have more problems: probably your pupil is so enlarged at night that going beyond the ablation zone of the surgery and you see partially through operated cornea and partially through not operated cornea.
I think it would be highly unlikely that you have pupils of 1 cm... may be what you mean is the iris? It is impossible to measure precisely the size of pupils to yourself in front of mirror.
What you can do is to mention more or less the size in CERTAIN light conditions (preferable in relative dark conditions) and then instill Alphagan, wait 15-30 minutes and go to see your pupils in the same light conditions in front of mirror - you should notice that your pupils are much smaller at deem light after the Alphagan.
Alphagan is reducing the enlargement of the pupil in the dark conditions.
Diopter
13-Nov-2005, 12:34
Re: pupil size
Don't forget that this messages board (D'Eyealogues) is part of a larger site (LaserMyEye (http://www.lasermyeye.org/index.html)). There are many wonderful and thorough articles about the technical aspects of pupil size and measurement, as well as most other topics. Many articles have more precision than we can accomplish with our posts, so don't forget to look around and read up!
Pupillometry (http://www.lasermyeye.org/encyclopedia/pupillometry.html)
The Lone Dog’s pupil primer for casualty prevention (http://www.lasermyeye.org/keratoscoop/columns/lonedog/lonedog31may2003.html)
Accurate pupil measurement in Laser Vision Correction (http://www.lasermyeye.org/keratoscoop/columns/lonedog/lonedog11jun2003.html)
Diopter
anyone tried NeuroVision as a solution to their problems?
Diopter
14-Nov-2005, 02:35
anyone tried NeuroVision as a solution to their problems?
From the NeuroVision (http://www.neuro-vision.com/index.html) website:
"Essentially, LASIK physically alters the curvature of the eye to enable a sharper focus. In contrast, Neurovision enables sharper vision by training the brain to pick out fainter contrasts."
When you've had the same eyes (with very gradual changes, of course) for 20, 30, 40, or 50 years and you suddenly and radically chop them open and change several of the visual parameters, there are a lot of altered visual stimuli for the brain to adjust to. (Call me Mr. Obvious.)
I can truly understand this now, post-refractive surgery, guinea pig that I am.
Thinking logically about this, I suspect that contrast sensitivity exercises like this could help hasten the brain's adjustment period. I have no experience with this, but it's an interesting concept.
I might be able to accomplish this training for free by looking for all of the food I've dropped under my desk at work.
Diopter
I might be able to accomplish this training for free by looking for all of the food I've dropped under my desk at work.
You're catching on just great, Diopter. I got a good laugh out of this. Thanks.
Hi, I noticed during some cases at night, for example looking out of my house windows, my hazy, halo/starburst vision will diminish significantly when I focus on say a lamp post for a certain period of time but when I look away to do other stuff and when i look back at the same scene, the hazy, halo, starburst vision comes back... does this indicate that my problems may not be caused by higher order abberration? There is around 200 degree of difference between my left and right eyes before the Op with my right eye having a higher degree, does this indicate that I have a lazy eye problem that might be the cause of my complications? My vision now in my right is much better than my left after the Op
Hi, I noticed during some cases at night, for example looking out of my house windows, my hazy, halo/starburst vision will diminish significantly when I focus on say a lamp post for a certain period of time but when I look away to do other stuff and when i look back at the same scene, the hazy, halo, starburst vision comes back... does this indicate that my problems may not be caused by higher order abberration? There is around 200 degree of difference between my left and right eyes before the Op with my right eye having a higher degree, does this indicate that I have a lazy eye problem that might be the cause of my complications? My vision now in my right is much better than my left after the Op
This probably means that your pupil vacillates between miosis (constriction) and mydriasis (dilation). It might also indicate some degree of farsightedness with a latency of focus.
DrG
pavel_g
18-Nov-2005, 10:53
Hi, I noticed during some cases at night, for example looking out of my house windows, my hazy, halo/starburst vision will diminish significantly when I focus on say a lamp post for a certain period of time but when I look away to do other stuff and when i look back at the same scene, the hazy, halo, starburst vision comes back...
I have exactly the same thing. I believe it is entirely pupil size-related issue.
My left eye is also much worse than my right one.
Mark, our symptoms are too similar.
May be we have other things in common, for example, what is the name of your cat? :)
it "seems" that there maybe help for HOAs, http://www.ophthonix.com/ anyone usings these lens? Are they available outside of USA?
it "seems" that there maybe help for HOAs, http://www.ophthonix.com/ anyone usings these lens? Are they available outside of USA?
whoa!! it seems good! i want some!
While there is great potential with this technology, it isn't quite ready for prime time. The problem with wavefront eyeglasses is that each point on the lens has a different wavefront. When you move your eye to a different point on the lens, your eye is no longer in-register with the correction. A contact lens makes more sense, except that a similar problem needs to be solved, which is how to keep the contact lens from translating and rotating. Anybody who has fit or worn toric soft lenses can testify to some of the difficulties inherent in achieving this goal. All this adds up to some aberrations being more easily correctable than others, some people being helped alot, some being helped some, and some not helped at all, which is the situation with some patients who have tried to obtain RGP lenses.
RGP lenses are the most reliable and readily available "treatment" for higher order aberrations caused by corneal refractive surgery. At some point, the methodologies for fitting RGP lenses will become more refined and more widely available. The owner of a lab who makes lenses for me recently told me that he was approached at a recent european contact lens manufacturers' meeting by a group from China. They were seeking a lens design that could perform astigmatic orthokeratology. Because of the work we had done together to come up with a successful oval optical zone design for a post-LASIK patient, they were the only lab at the conference able to fulfill the unusual request from the Chinese.
DrG
I was looking for support group in singapore for post lasik patients when I come across the surgicaleyes forum, i did a search and found that there is some posting on support group in singapore but the site needs money to be access, i am very irritated and disgusted by this practise :mad: .. I dun own a credit card as I am still a student so what am I suppose to do? Any kind soul who has access to that site pls do a search on singapore support group and tell me if there is any and how do i contact them.. thanks alot
Hi Mark, I'm Wong from Malaysia. I'm having similar problems like yours as well, not only it doesn't improve, but it's getting worse (anyway , I'm a 4 years post-LASIK patient). I was planning to travel down to Singapore's National Eye Hospital to seek Dr. Lim Li. I've been told that she has the experience of fitting ex-LASIK patients with Reverse geometry RGP lens. Maybe you can seek her help. I've changed my plan now because I've found an orhokeratology practitioner here in Kuala Lumpur who is willing to help me. I'll see what she can do.
one more thing, I've created a website - www.afterlasik.com (http://www.afterlasik.com). Hope I can help in providing more information and hope people around asia can interact through my site (provided that the site can get some rankings in the search engine :p ). It's still very much in construction, any feedbacks are welcomed! Maybe you guys can help with the survey here for a start (poll (http://www.afterlasik.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2))
They were seeking a lens design that could perform astigmatic orthokeratology. Because of the work we had done together to come up with a successful oval optical zone design for a post-LASIK patient, they were the only lab at the conference able to fulfill the unusual request from the Chinese.
DrG
Hi Dr. G, it's great to hear that. I really hope they will succeed in designing these ortho-k lens and will be widely available soon. And hopefully, these lens would be able to help patients like us.
Regards,
Wong
Hey Wong,
Great to see that you are on the right track. I believe that one of these doctors can help you. The lenses you seek are indeed available. It is really a small world, after all.
DrG
P.S.: Nice looking website!
Rebecca Petris
21-Nov-2005, 10:23
Kudos to you for taking the initiative to help people in your region, Wong! That's really great of you, and you've done a nice job with the site setup. :)
Kudos to you for taking the initiative to help people in your region, Wong! That's really great of you, and you've done a nice job with the site setup. :)
Thank you very much, Rebecca and Dr.G! I'm very happy to hear that. I feel a little bit more motivated right now. Buiding the site is the least I can do to help. I wish I can do more. I hope the people out there will find the website helpful.
KK Wong
www.afterlasik.com (http://www.afterlasik.com)
So what's the update on your contact lens odyssey, Wong? In your last blog at the end of October you had visited an orthokeratology practitioner who said she could fit you. Has that happened yet?
Oh, sorry for not updating the site because I've been quite busy and recently caught with a bad flu. I've just placed an order for the lens and need to wait for about 2-3 weeks before the lens arrived. And I've just noticed that I'm actually using only my right eye to look at far distance objects because my left's eye vision is very blurry (cannot be corrected even with glasses) - I'm still wondering whether it is really due to higher order aberrations. I truly hope the lens could help me so that I don't have to stress my eyes making them worse. I can't wait to find out more.
KK Wong
www.afterlasik.com (http://www.afterlasik.com)
Diopter
22-Nov-2005, 20:23
Hi, Wong --
I, too want to add that your site is very well done. Some of the links were useful. I'm so sorry for you prolonged suffering.
my left's eye vision is very blurry (cannot be corrected even with glasses) - I'm still wondering whether it is really due to higher order aberrationsBy very definition of "cannot be corrected with glasses", it seems that it must be due to HOAs, unless you have another physical cause, such as one of the post-surgery diseases that causes hazing, swelling, or other refractive interruptions.
I truly hope the lens could help me so that I don't have to stress my eyes making them worse.Don't worry about eye strain making them worse. I don't think that can happen by simply looking through your eyes. I have great empathy for your visual pain, however. I know exactly how you feel.
Diopter
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